Response to Jean Kilbourne: women in advertising

This is my response to a lecture by Jean Kilbourne, made into a video documentary called ‘Killing Us Softly 3′ on the subject of women in advertising. She’s since produced another called ‘Generation M: Misogyny in Media and Culture’ and is a regular speaker at universities on these issues. The lecture she gave focuses on [...]

This is my response to a lecture by Jean Kilbourne, made into a video documentary called ‘Killing Us Softly 3′ on the subject of women in advertising. She’s since produced another called ‘Generation M: Misogyny in Media and Culture’ and is a regular speaker at universities on these issues.

The lecture she gave focuses on advertising and the role of women. Everything she says is delivered warmly and with wit, and she generally comes across as very likable. However I found myself shaking my head in disagreement during her lecture; her viewpoint is a very specific one, and I think there’s another way to look at the issue. So, here are some of the main quotes from the lecture and my responses.

KILBOURNE: “The first thing the advertisers do is surround us with the image of ideal female beauty, so we all learn how important it is for a woman to be beautiful, and exactly what it takes.”

RESPONSE: Kilbourne says this sarcastically: what she’s really doing here is objecting to the use of ‘ideal female beauty’ and that it is not as important for a woman to be beautiful as advertisers suggest. But how does Kilbourne know these are ‘ideal’ women? Doesn’t she believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Or, as I suspect, does she know that the beauty of the women used by advertisers is in the eyes of a vast majority of beholders, and used by advertisers for that reason? After all, she describes them as possessing ‘ideal female beauty.’ What advertisers are doing, of course, is using models they feel will be attractive to most viewers; that’s all.

In other words, the question of which came first, the ‘ideal female beauty’ in our minds (including Kilbourne’s) or the advertising depicting it, is fairly easy to answer. We all have an innate idea of what attracts us to females in the first place, and advertisers merely exploit it. (I say ‘all’ rather than ‘men’ because our idea of female beauty is rather objective as discerned by science, and advertisers are appealing to women using women, as well as appealing to men using women, for this reason.) Researchers know precisely what this ‘ideal woman’ consists of in terms of her hip-to-waist ratio, symmetry, skin complexion, gait, etc. It turns out that these things are mostly objective rather than subjective standards of beauty, according to research, and the closer one’s partner approaches perfection, the more attractive we will usually find them.

It is not, therefore, the fault of advertisers that we have this idea, and I find it difficult to criticize them for making use of it. (If your hard-earned money were at risk promoting a product the sales of which you hope will make you a living, would you be happy with an agency depicting unattractive people in your ad? If not, then the next pertinent question is this: Which models will appeal to the widest audience? Claudia Schiffer may not be far down the list. I do, however, accept that they don’t need to be perfect: it seems to me that advertisers would benefit from using more ‘real’ women – rather than Barbie dolls – commercially. Things are beginning to get more diverse as media becomes more ‘narrow-band’ and niche-driven.)

KILBOURNE: “Women’s bodies are still turned into objects, into things… [images show a perfume bottle shaped like a female torso].”

RESPONSE: Because we have this innate idea of what is beautiful about women, we create things which celebrate it. A product shaped like a female torso is nothing more or less than a depiction of something beautiful, in the way other ads may use beautiful landscapes and others beautiful homes and others all three beautiful things together in a beautiful, appealing pile of beautiful. In the case of the perfume bottle, it’s obviously aimed at women (it’s perfume) rather than men, and hopes to appeal to a woman’s sense of her own beauty. (‘By wearing this perfume’, they hope she’ll think, ‘I may give off this exquisitely beautiful vibe.’)

KILBOURNE: “Turning a human being into a thing is almost always the first step towards justifying violence towards that person.”

RESPONSE: Although this may seem like nonsense, what Kilbourne is saying here is that women being objectified in general can lead to violence toward them. I’m sure that’s true. But that doesn’t make a torso-shaped perfume bottle wrong – not even slightly – nor any of the other products or art pieces which celebrate or depict the female form.

KILBOURNE: “Most often the focus is on breasts….”

RESPONSE: …because men find breasts attractive, and many (most?) men find a fuller bust attractive. If this were not the case, advertising would not have an interest in portraying it. That is why, before advertising ever began to feature the bust, art did the same thing.

KILBOURNE: “Then we’re told to wear uplifting bras … imagine if men were supposed to play this game … Wonder Jock, the strap for the bulge you’ve always wanted!”

RESPONSE: This got quite a giggle from the audience. But there are two things to say here. First, ‘supposed’ is the wrong word; women who wear uplifting bras want to be attractive by possessing what is widely considered beautiful (such as a fuller bust). Nobody is ‘supposed’ to do anything; advertising exists to sell products which women are perfectly free to ignore. Second: men are, in fact, the target of precisely the kinds of ads she implies they’re not! ‘Male enhancement’ pills claim to create the ‘bulge you’ve always wanted’. Deodorants, cologne, cars, watches and other status symbols are marketed to men for the improvement of their general attractiveness to partners. How is Kilbourne missing this crucial point? And it’s not a minor one. The point extends to the rest of what she’s saying. Her paranoia about advertising to females is grossly ignorant of the myriad advertising which draws upon exactly the same opposite points to males, a fact which destroys her basic premise.

KILBOURNE: “We all learn very early on that our breasts are never okay the way they are.”

RESPONSE: Well then ‘we all’ made the very grave mistake of assuming that advertising was trying to teach us! Advertising is merely a proposal competing for attention, an argument: ‘You lack this; we can provide it.’ A rational individual is free to ignore it completely, consider its premise and reject it, or consider its premise and accept it as something which could benefit them (which is often the result, or else advertisers would not be in business). Fundamentally, advertising exists to sell products and services, and what ‘we all’ need to do is to understand its role rather than imagine that everything it says is automatically true just because it’s on the air or in print. Frankly, if a woman thinks a suggestion that her breasts are not perfect the way they are is true just because a company wrote it in a print ad aimed at selling her something, she has bigger problems with learning than with advertising.

KILBOURNE: “That’s not to say there aren’t stereotypes that harm men, there are plenty of stereotypes that harm men, but they tend to be less intimate, less related to the body.”

RESPONSE: Well I’m glad she admits it. But then she goes on to imply that, because they’re less ‘intimate, less related to the body’, they’re less harmful. Why is a stereotype which relates to the body worse than any other stereotype? A common stereotype of men is that they should be successful and wealthy to be considered attractive. That strikes me as a potentially hugely harmful stereotype. Why is a stereotype of what an attractive woman looks like any worse than that? Or any better? Kilbourne doesn’t address this basic question, and – again – I’m afraid this annihilates her premise.

KILBOURNE: “This is a body type that basically doesn’t exist, and yet it’s the only one we ever see.”

REPSONSE: A good point. Again, it happens for the reasons I cited above – we enjoy looking at the ideal female form in the way we enjoy watching ideal lives on television and reading about fantasy worlds in novels. There’s little wrong with that, and no man I know expects women to look like the women they see on ads. If anything, most men I know are extremely forgiving; it’s the women who are dissatisfied with their bodies. The message for women, then, is that the female forms celebrated in art and used in advertising should not be the basis for exacting criticisms upon themselves.

KILBOURNE: “In this ad, at the top it says, ‘The more you subtract, the more you add.’ What a horrible message. Now this is a fashion ad, they’re talking about simplicity in fashion, but she’s also very thin….”

RESPONSE: This one had me almost fall off my chair. Here, Kilbourne admits she knows fully what the ad is saying about simplicity in fashion, yet still chooses to mischaracterize it as a ‘horrible message’ about the weight of the model in an unlikely connection that she’s imposed on the ad. I’ve noticed this continual reaching all throughout her lecture.

KILBOURNE: “The obsession with thinness is really, I think, about cutting girls down to size, silencing them…”

RESPONSE: Really? And I suppose the obsession with breasts is about having a rounded personality and the obsession with legs about having a two-pronged approach to life? This is just utter rubbish, and as she begins to read carefully-selected ad copy after carefully-selected ad copy, her seminar begins to sound more and more like that of a raving conspiracy theorist, the kind who imagines all sorts of messages coming from a Borg-like collective.

KILBOURNE: “The image of girls and women is usually passive, vulnerable, and very different from the body language of boys and men. Women typically pose like this, and men like this…”

RESPONSE: Finally an interesting observation, which speaks as much to the traditional roles of man as the strong protector and woman as the vulnerable and protected as it does degrading of women. But she’s right: contemporary sexism takes the form of expecting women to be passive and expecting men to be active, women to be submissive and men to be dominant.

Kilbourne goes on to read her version of things into the body language of the models in several other ads, every time interpreting for the audience as she went, lest they ‘miss it’ (in the manner of a psychic or medium who must keep talking to guide the minds of their audience to the desired conclusion; in the manner of advertisers, in fact, who must sell their product to a gullible pack). For every one of her examples I could find another which refutes her damning commentary, but Kilbourne is in charge of the projector.

KILBOURNE: “The ultimate message that women and girls get…”

RESPONSE: Sorry to nitpick, but there is no ultimate message, because there is no ultimate authority on this. The message depends on who you pay attention to. Pay attention to an ad, you get one message. Pay attention to Kilbourne, you get the message she’s selling: the idea that women are too stupid to differentiate between advertising and reality.

KILBOURNE: “Sex is both more important and less important than our culture makes it out to be.”

RESPONSE: What she really means by ‘our culture’ is ‘advertising’. And I agree. Sex is both more important and less important than its portrayal in advertising. But advertising is less important than Kilbourne thinks it is, and it certainly isn’t the sum total of ‘our culture’ as her choice of words implies. In reality, rather than people’s view of sex being shaped most significantly by advertising, on the contrary, advertising is shaped by our views of sex.

KILBOURNE: “Advertising always implies that women need men in order to be happy…”

RESPONSE: …and that men need women (Calvin Klein, Axe, and a hundred thousand others). So what?

KILBOURNE: “And in all this …. there’s no emphasis on relationships or on intimacy…”

RESPONSE: What is she missing about the ad she just played showing a man and a woman rolling around on a bed? What could be more intimate? And how else does one portray a relationship in 30 seconds? Is she really claiming not to have seen attempts to portray relationships in advertising?

KILBOURNE: “No wonder we have the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the developed world.”

RESPONSE: I hope she isn’t trying to claim that the high rate of teen pregnancy in America is due to the influence of advertising. She would need to show a positive correlation between advertising of this nature in places with high rates of teen pregnancies compared with places with lower rates. She can’t, because there is no such correlation.

KILBOURNE: “When bondage is used to sell [various products], we can say that pornography has become mainstream.”

RESPONSE: Let’s suppose that’s true. Is it so obvious that we must instantly agree with her implication that pornography becoming mainstream is to be lamented? Is she going to give us some moral arguments against pornography in principle? (I suppose this is an area which unites feminists like Kilbourne and her traditional foes in conservative circles.)

KILBOURNE: “[We need a society] that sees itself primarily as citizens rather than as consumers. … What’s at stake for all of us … is our ability to have authentic and freely-chosen lives, nothing less.”

RESPONSE: Who could agree more with that last statement than I, a spirited libertarian, to whom freedom is the defining value? And yet I couldn’t agree less with the thrust of Kilbourne’s message here, which sometimes seems more degrading to women than many of the ads she criticizes. If women are free, as she suggests, then they are free to reject the proposals of advertisements and think for themselves. And I believe that’s often exactly what they’re doing. There’s nothing wrong with portraying an ideal; it’s believing that anything less is unacceptable that is so damaging. The lesson is for the audience, therefore, rather than for the advertisers.

Jean Kilbourne’s official website can be found here.

40 Comments

  1. Anonymous on June 3, 2010 | Permalink

    youre a moron, how can you have such little empathy

  2. John on June 16, 2010 | Permalink

    Empathy isn’t at issue, Ms. Anonymous. I’m full of empathy when it’s appropriate. This is about taking issue with certain very specific claims being made by Kilbourne which I think are bogus. If you’d care to formulate your argument in disagreement with me, I’ll be happy to consider it.

  3. Anonymous on August 8, 2010 | Permalink

    you are an idiot.

  4. John on August 18, 2010 | Permalink

    Thank you. Do you have an argument?

  5. Freya on September 2, 2010 | Permalink

    Perhaps psychology and sociology aren’t your strong suits, Mr Wright. But you are most certainly quite ignorant if you chose such a narrow perspective and wish to discredits findings and studies dedicated at lengths to the objectification of women.
    To make light of degrading media portrayals of a group of humankind can be detrimental to society and the future children of the World.

    Perhaps you ought to re-examine values and concepts such as lewd lust vs meaningful relationships, need vs subservience, reality vs virtual reality, and morbid anorexia vs morbid anorexia with artificial body implants and the sum of the whole as it applies to the susceptible minds’ of today’s youth.

    Dr Kilbourne was not merely highlighting what misleading message and symbolisms you could or could not perceive, Mr Wright. Her subject is how these have high potentials to implement inferiority issues and unrealistic views in other people, with perhaps less guarded and stern paradigm than yours. With much less knowledge and partial thoughts, and more feeble, innocent minds.

    If her works are so trivial as your rebuttals suggest, why would you not, enter the field of women studies and sexology yourself, or a question with much faster conclusions, what daft minds would honour Dr Kilbourne with such high accolades and awards?

  6. steph on September 7, 2010 | Permalink

    i like to respect people’s opinions, but your line of thought is exactly what ms. kilbourne is talking about…

  7. John on September 8, 2010 | Permalink

    Freya-

    I appreciate your comment. You’re right, there may be some less analytical minds who will swallow the messages of sellers whole, without filter; what, then, is your response? How important is the individual responsibility to decide what to believe for oneself? Is the freedom of speech of sellers to be shackled by the wiser minds with regard to the stupider? Advertising certainly plays a part in influencing us; we all influence each other. But Kilbourne’s assertions in this seminar are manic, unrealistic, and sometimes (as I’ve shown above) flat-out inaccurate.

    Perhaps more effort should be expended in bullshit-proofing our children than in alarmism which teaches them to read sexism into everything, a performance which is itself sexist.

    I’d be happy to enter the field of women studies, but I fear there isn’t much room for contrarians. : )

  8. Lisa O on September 13, 2010 | Permalink

    Because you are a male, I think the only way you can approach this is to talk about the way the ads make you feel or think. You could also talk to some women about it. It is easy for you to say Killbourne is wrong, because you are not the target of these ads, nor are men suffering because they exist. I suppose you do suffer in the sense that you have developed an insensitive perspective on what women must go through. Talk to them, and find out.

  9. John on September 13, 2010 | Permalink

    Lisa, that’s patently false. It’s like saying that someone must be a drug addict to enter a career in rehabilitation. I talk to women every day about stuff like this and my view is that my perspective wouldn’t change much or at all (at least that’s what the women I’m talking to tell me). Basically you should re-read my post and pretend I’m a woman saying it: my critique is either valid or not, regardless of the gender of the writer. You may still disagree, but it won’t be ad hominem.

  10. Anonymous on October 6, 2010 | Permalink

    You make me sick. You’re blind to how these ads affect women. It’s all around us, like a virus, and it subconsciously destroys most girl’s self-confidence. You have no foresight, you’re just a stupid fool and you should be ashamed of how much of a bigot you are.

  11. Anonymous on October 6, 2010 | Permalink

    I take that last comment back. I read it again, it turns out that you are actually smart and I do understand some of your viewpoints. I just wish advertisers would see the damage they’re doing, even though it is obviously unintentional. There are a lot of ways to tackle this problem, and I think the advertisements are a good place to start.

    Sorry about other comment, not exactly a good day for me. :/

  12. John on October 10, 2010 | Permalink

    Haha! Don’t worry about it. There’s a conversation to be had here beyond my critique above, that’s for certain. We could have it, if you like! :)

    Thanks for the comments.

  13. Cait on November 4, 2010 | Permalink

    I’ve never heard of you before and the only reason I’m here reading your article is because I need to write a paper based on a Kilbourne essay. That being said, sir, you made my night with some of your responses. Please note, I am a WOMAN. Not all, but several of your responses had me practically shouting in agreement. In one of your above responses, you said…

    “Perhaps more effort should be expended in bullshit-proofing our children than in alarmism which teaches them to read sexism into everything, a performance which is itself sexist.”

    I could not have said it better. Who in the world said we have to LET advertising do all of the talking?!

    This doesn’t mean I think highly of advertising by any stretch. I do believe that there are potentially deadly messages within the barrage of advertising we see at present. But in case anyone hasn’t figured it out, it will only get worse, so perhaps as women we might as well help ourselves out and stop playing the victim. Yes, there are true victims out there and I’m not denying the existence of rampant body image and self esteem problems. However, pointing a blaming, militant finger is not the answer.

    I don’t agree with everything you’ve said, Mr. Wright, but thank God there’s someone else out there who thinks Kilbourne sounds as obsessive and paranoid as I thought.

  14. John on November 8, 2010 | Permalink

    Cait, I appreciate your comments a lot. You’re right, of course; there is a plethora ways to object to treatments in advertising and in no way do I think we need to approve of everything to defend its right to exist. Kilbourne makes a few good points, but her overall tendency worries me, particularly when she’s teaching young others (especially women) to think likewise.

    Thanks again.

  15. John on November 8, 2010 | Permalink

    By the way, for a good followup piece with some other reaction, see here: http://www.john-wright.net/2010/10/18/on-kilbourne-reaction/

  16. Manuel on February 3, 2011 | Permalink

    John, I am saddened to see no one supports you. I agree with you almost completely. My teacher made us watch this video and go home to write an essay about the effect advertising has had on us. It’s actually quite laughable that such an objective take on a real issue can be forced as a source for an academic paper. I can sympathize with those who suffer from the effects of advertising, but watching this was cringe-worthy. It was like watching someone you don’t know trying to become your friend. It seemed to me that she tried too hard to seem likeable, and pushed out too many “inside” jokes. As a man watching this video, this lady had no ethos.

    Her personal take on the various advertisements just showed how good she was at victimizing herself.

  17. Amanda on February 21, 2011 | Permalink

    Seriously? Are you joking?

  18. John on February 23, 2011 | Permalink

    Manuel- Thanks for your comments. I wouldn’t say no one supports me on this… I think those who disagree tend to react in comments more. I agree with you, I find it worrying that Kilbourne’s lectures are being used in academic circles; they’re not exactly well argued.

  19. Red on February 26, 2011 | Permalink

    I saw the lecture too, and I didn’t like what I saw. The real problem was that Kilbourne was telling women how they should think and feel about ads. I didn’t see the high-fashion ads as very overtly sexual. I see many such ads almost every day (and it’s been ten years since “Killing Us Softly 3″), and the thing that always strikes me is just how posed they are. The men have no more expression or personality than the women. Everyone looks like they’re on heroin. It took me a long time to get the infamous Dolce & Gabbana “gang rape” ad, because it just looked too polished and calm to be a scene from “The Accused”.

    The “wristwatch bondage” ad in “The New Yorker” was the most confusing. There was no black leather, chains or spiky clothing involved, so I’m still puzzling over whether the theme really was bondage. Besides, how the hell does S&M sell wristwatches? Oh, I get it now. They go on your wrist, like handcuffs. But since the man will be wearing the watch, doesn’t that make him the submissive one? By the time you’ve racked your brains over all this, you’ve already flipped the page to the Bruce Eric Kaplan cartoons and forgotten about it.

    Some of Kilbourne’s theories seem to have been copied right out of Wilson Brian Key. “If that bottle of tabasco sauce isn’t having intercourse with that baked potato,” she says, “then I don’t know what is.” Could it be…nothing is? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    My point is, ads tend to be abstract and open to interpretation. And women don’t always identify with the female images they see in ads. Yes, a lot of these ads are obnoxious and in bad taste. But that doesn’t automatically make the viewer a bimbo, or make her perceive herself that way. Why doesn’t Kilbourne emphasize a woman’s ability to think for herself? I found her blanket statements on how women think and respond (if they bother to respond to an ad at all) pretty condescending. Not everyone is a knee-jerk reactionary who considers becoming an anorexic the moment she opens up a copy of “Vogue” (although the clothes do make you want to vomit–involuntarily).

  20. John on March 9, 2011 | Permalink

    Exactly.

  21. adalex on March 16, 2011 | Permalink

    I agree with you on almost every topic you present. In college I wrote a similar response essays to one of her articles. The idea that she alienates women and forgets that men are being exploited just the same (ie., the old spice man)is ignorant, and to be blunt, quite annoying. Also, she has degrees in English and Education, yet I wonder how extensively she studied Advertising, Marketing, Public Relations, or similar areas. As a student and employee of this field, I find her statements invalid and paranoid and her methods simply a way of creating a cult-like following of uninformed feminists.

  22. John on March 17, 2011 | Permalink

    Thanks for the remarks…. I agree, of course. :)

  23. CaptainS. on April 8, 2011 | Permalink

    Way to go bro. You completely missed the point. Maybe YOU don’t feel affected by advertisement, but they’re hard to ignore. They’re everywhere and they try to tell us what to do as men/women. What products we should buy to be more masculine/feminine. That without those products perfection will not reached. They do not literally tell us, but the message is there.

  24. John on April 10, 2011 | Permalink

    Captian S- Point posed and answered above. Advertising is an argument; the member of the public is entirely free with regards what they do with it. Also, you didn’t address the majority of my post above, which was specific responses to Kilbourne’s substandard reasoning.

  25. Anonymous on September 18, 2011 | Permalink

    So sad that sexism and ethnocentrism has crippled many of you from seeing the truth in what Kilbourne is saying. Read Women Race and Class by Angela Davis, it helped me view the world in a different way. By different I mean NOT male and white, read Female Chauvinist Pigs, give a different perspective a chance, it might actually benefit your brain.

  26. Colin on September 22, 2011 | Permalink

    As many posters before me, I have happened upon this old thread as the result of a college course. We watched “Killing Me Softly 4″ in class this week, and were required to read an essay of Kilbourne’s in conjunction with it. Unfortunately, its my solemn task to analyze and discuss this essay tomorrow!
    As I read through your response I came across a number of parallels between your thoughts and those in my notes. Kilbourne often seemed to be grasping for an analysis to fit her thesis, and more than once created an interpretation to an ad that simply didn’t fit. Beyond her conspiratorial inventions, Kilbournes inability to see the other side of the coin in advertising to males, shows her to be a sexist herself, and discredits her greatly (not to mention that shes 68, and every male or female I’ve asked pegs her as 45-50, testament to how she herself alters her appearance toward the very ideal she despises).
    There is one bit we all seem to agree on, consumerism is the real issue at hand. We should all strive to avoid defining ourselves by the objects we own or wear, and instead focus on the inner.

    A quick background on me, which may lend a bit of credit to Mr. Wright; I was raised by a single mother, and an aunt. I have two sisters and no brothers. I’m married to a feminist who went to an all women college (I can also say my wife agrees with the above analysis and conclusions, though she adds it lacks a degree of sensitivity). I am most certainly not sexist. And while disagreeing with a feminist standpoint may not be PC, it does not a sexist or moron make (i.e. there are many breeds of feminism, and not all get along, surely the feminists aren’t sexist against women).

  27. Tobi T. on October 10, 2011 | Permalink

    Nice critique. I enjoyed looking at different views than those origianally discussed in class, and I have to say, I like yours more. There is a pattern in advertizing that is degrating, but I wouldn’t blame it on advertizing in the slightest, but would argue it’s a product of society.
    I really like that you mentioned how men are offended too. I do think women are sightly more endangered by the degredation. But this may have more to do with biology…Anyway I don’t quite agree with everything, but people rarely do.Thank you, though, for your opinion, and for expressing it.

  28. equality on October 14, 2011 | Permalink

    Wow. I am very sad for you, John. You dedicate so much time to upkeep this website merely to bash a strong, intelligent, compassionate lady such as Ms. Kilbourne? You should be ashamed of yourself. Obviously you are a bigot and sexist. You are blind no to see it. I am thankful for Ms. Kilbourne. She speaks for all women. I hope at some point in life you take a step back and realize how narrow-minded you truly are. I pity the woman who settles down with you, John. I’ve had a bad day but coming across this website made it just a little more sad.

  29. Anthony on October 30, 2011 | Permalink

    Resorting to name calling… Really? It is simply one persons opinion. And yes we are not women, so no we don’t exactly know. But like he said, it doesn’t take a drug addict to rehabilitate a “drugy”. Women don’t also know the harassment that happens to men. Growing up at my bus stop men were ridiculed for being fat, virgins, or whatever other cliche you women seem to believe only affects you. Advertizing is a mass media. Not a gun pointing at women. Just realize, no matter what the media says, you still have the power to make a choice. -And scientifically relate us to animals, just for fun… Last I checked the “sexy”, “dominant” animal gets the mate. Not because they were advertized to do so, because genetically it is what they want.

  30. Sarah on November 5, 2011 | Permalink

    John, although I’m also writing a paper in response to Jean Kilbourne, I’m so glad to see that I’m not the only that thinks this way. Personally, I view Kilbourne’s documentary to be all on opinion. This could be that I’m young, this could be because I could care less about the media, but the only thought running through my head throughout the documentary was “well, advertising is what people WANT to see,” right? I don’t think advertisements would sell if there weren’t these “beautiful” people to be the cover. I’ll give her respect because she did follow through with all the time she took on looking up images and such, but I don’t think there were enough statistics and proof to back up her thoughts – those are just my thoughts, again. I applaud you on your thoughts and rebutting to her documentary. . . and thank you!

  31. Aakritee on November 13, 2011 | Permalink

    Only thing I can say is you are being impractical and ignorant. I have seen the documentary various times and written various papers on the issue. It is not just about Kilbourne’s judgement. It is something we see everyday and everywhere. We all should praise her for the fact that what she said 40 years ago still fits today and in fact it fits more.
    In fact I either didn’t get what you are trying or say or said “really!!” What do you say to the fact that young teens girls are portrayed as sex objects in the television. The way they are dressed up and they are made to behave?? If you don’t agree just do some more research.

    Of course I don’t agree with everything Kilbourne says but there is hardly any other documentary or speech I can agree more to. Like I said earlier may be it is the reason she is doing it for 40 years and it still looks new and what she says sounds more and more true.

  32. Marilyn on November 17, 2011 | Permalink

    Sadly, none of us can possibly understand the power of images in advertising without studying visual thinking and the psychology of art. It would also help if we had knowledge of advertising’s tools so we don’t end up believing that we’re in control of our response to such images. Too many courses include films, such as Kilbourne’s, where the issue is perceived as two-sided or the dialogue evolves into the either/or dichotomy, moving students to extremes in their “argument.” But even if multiple perspectives were presented, what’s missing is an understanding of how our brain processes such images, from how much of the image is sampled and why, to what influences the meaning each of us construct and the resulting affect on our lives and relationships. This page is one of the best arguments I’ve seen for interdisciplinary courses. Staying at the level of debating what’s right and wrong keeps us ignorant and maintains a warped notion of critical thought, and education, in general. Plus, creation of such ads represents the laziness so many abhor. Surely, the human mind is creative enough to construct ads that sell products or services without relying on sex to sell everything from roses to rice. I use Kilbourne’s film, and although I share my understandings from having studied under an art literacy guru, I haven’t required readings on visual thought. Thank you, as now I see just how essential it is that I do.

  33. John on November 17, 2011 | Permalink

    Guys, I appreciate your comments. I just spent a whole day taking the pro-feminist side of a debate about gender roles, so my being called a bigot against women is just a little amusing.

    Keep up the good work, all. Always check everything against basic logic. I’ll come back soon and maybe write a little more on this, and we can all have a good dustup about it.

  34. aaron on November 27, 2011 | Permalink

    I agree, i say there is nothing wrong to wanting to be beautiful. For me its should be more inspiration than losing self confident.

  35. Teresa on November 29, 2011 | Permalink

    I was reading this for opposing view-points on the objectification of women and found it interesting.
    I would like to start out with saying that I’m glad you disagree with her because you’re helping me write my paper but I do have a few questions.
    When you said ‘First, “supposed” is the wrong word; women who wear uplifting bras want to be attractive by possessing what is widely considered beautiful (such as a fuller bust).’ I was wondering why having a fuller bust makes you attractive? But it doesn’t, it’s the idea that having a fuller bust makes you attractive. That idea came from the media…from models who would get breasts implants and women who are considered ‘sexy’ based purely on the way they look. You go on to mention that there is an ‘ideal’ female form. I think Kilbourne is trying to get away from that kind of thinking, that there is only one way to be beautiful as a woman.

  36. John on December 2, 2011 | Permalink

    Teresa- Welcome. You say:

    “I was wondering why having a fuller bust makes you attractive? … That idea came from the media…”

    Actually there is a biological preference for larger breasts. In other words, we’re wired to prefer them, and to find them attractive (see Miller, 2000, ‘The Mating Mind: How sexual choice shaped the evolution of human nature’, and Singh, 1995, ‘Female health, attractiveness, and desirability for relationships’: Role of breast asymmetry and waist-to-hip ratio. Ethology and Sociobiology).

    So I disagree with you that the idea of finding a fuller bust attractive came from the media. In fact what I said in the article above stands true; it was the opposite way about. The media simply gives us what we already want. They’re competing for your attention, and thus will use the most universally attractive people they can (much of the time). I have a tough time arguing with biology!

    “You go on to mention that there is an ‘ideal’ female form. I think Kilbourne is trying to get away from that kind of thinking, that there is only one way to be beautiful as a woman.”

    Well those were Kilbourne’s words. She said herself, “The first thing the advertisers do is surround us with the image of ideal female beauty.” So she’s admitting that there is such a thing as a universal ‘ideal’, certain physical traits that we all agree is beautiful. And what we find most attractive about our partners are those traits which approach closest that ‘ideal’.

    This is not to say that ideas of beauty don’t also vary widely. Human sexuality (and sexual attraction) is a smorgasbord of preferences. Just look at all the kinks exploited in pornography, for example. Just as there are ice-cream flavors that everyone likes – vanilla, strawberry – there are those who just love Rocky Road. They’re a smaller group (and in human attraction may correlate with subcultures at times… goth kids have a different standard of attractiveness than punk kids, for example).

    But most people like vanilla. And, just as the universal appeal of vanilla ice-cream is used by retailers to sell ice-cream, so the universal appeal of the model with the ‘hourglass figure’ is used by advertisers to sell their products.

    I hope this explains my position.

  37. Biology sucks on January 16, 2012 | Permalink

    Ok then I guess I just am an inferior female, since my bust is small. I have great brains and all but my bust is small. I agree that we don’t have to take the media as fact, that we have minds of our own and we can discern. But the images ARE pervasive and hard to ignore. Especially when they play on an insecurity such as bust size, which is my case. I admit I do feel inferior when I see ads with busty women and how men my age (early 20s) react to them, though I do not feel compelled to get implants. Anyway, it’s always good to read both perspectives of an issue, as it gives food for thought. Cheers.

  38. John on January 17, 2012 | Permalink

    “Biology sucks”–

    Here’s what’s interesting, though. Although it’s the case that larger breasts are more widely considered attractive than smaller breasts, there’s a huge ‘market’ for smaller breasts too. So, although what people find attractive isn’t all subjective, there’s enough variation in preferences to make your observation that you’re ‘inferior’ completely wrong. First, the bust isn’t everything. Second, a minority of men actually prefer a smaller bust.

    Here’s how my wife puts it: There are many flavors of ice-cream. While almost everybody likes vanilla and strawberry, there’s a significant market for, say, Rocky Road. According to her, I have the body style and look of a Rocky Road flavor ice-cream. There’s a dedicated market who love it, but it’s a smaller market than, say, strawberry.

    Me = Rocky Road.
    Brad Pitt? = Strawberry.

    So boobs aren’t everything. Just because you aren’t vanilla or strawberry (like Scarlett Johansson, say) doesn’t mean there’s not a huge market of ravenous vultures who would love your whole package, small boobage and all.

  39. penpusher on January 21, 2012 | Permalink

    Hi John. I wonder, when you wrote this piece in August of 2009, did you imagine people would still be discussing it more than 2 years later?

    I really wanted to write a piece to respond to this piece, especially since Jean Kilbourne has reworked the material into a fourth version since then. I might still do it.

    For now, though, I’ll comment here and just generally say that both Kilbourne and you are a little bit right and a little bit wrong.

    Clearly, you know and understand that advertising is a kind of thievery: a method of getting manufacturers to buy their products with the promise of untrue images, impossible standards and unlikely outcomes. I think we can agree that advertising is noted for avoiding the truth when it’s bad and for “enhancing” the truth when it helps.

    Kilbourne has some very cogent points about how advertisers both treat images of women and how they deal with women consumers. I cannot disagree with her thinking. We know that there are psychological elements, “subliminal” (or really not so subliminal now) advertising. This is part of the plan. It is all about selling.

    The place where Kilbourne misses is that the advertising is working. If people refused to buy the products being sold this way, that sort of advertising would have ended. The fact that it is going on unabated, and in fact seems to have increased since her first forays into the discussion, prove the point.

    I do think you’re playing fast and loose with your response here though. Clearly Kilbourne is right with the bombardment of images that girls and women are getting, and the way those images are processed in often subtle and unseen, especially by men.

    Women, even “strong” women, are still very much at the mercy of men, and though you may think the choices made “celebrate the female form,” they do contribute to a culture of anger towards and demeaning of women. And that’s what Kilbourne is railing against.

    I guess I did write a small essay.

  40. John on January 24, 2012 | Permalink

    Welcome Penpusher-

    I didn’t know that I’d be writing one of the few critical responses to Kilbourne’s work (it seems everyone else has imbibed in the Kool-Aid). But, knowing that now, it’s not surprising that this article manages to be found by many students who are investigating for themselves whether Kilbourne really has these things right.

    Speaking of which, I’m not sure I would describe advertising as ‘thievery’. What are they stealing? They’re presenting a narrative which may or may not be true: “You could REALLY use this product!” or even “This will make you sexier” or even “You can’t live without this!”

    I’m not sure it’s so obvious that they’re always wrong, either. But that isn’t really the point: the point is that it’s perfectly legitimate to be one of the many voices in society hoping to persuade someone to do something you want them to. It could be “Give to my charity.” It could be “Buy my product.” It could be “Work for me!” It could be “Eat my food!” or “Prevent domestic violence.”

    The value of the proposition is determined individually by the hearer of the message, no? As I said above, a proposition to a woman that she doesn’t have big enough breasts is one that is certainly debatable, but not an illegitimate use of free speech. And it is up to her to reject it, if that’s what she decides to do.

    I agree with you that advertising avoids the truth when it hurts and enhances it when it helps. (Of course we all do that, as part of the very human trait of storytelling. Google ‘cognitive dissonance’, and how we typically deal with it, for example.) Advertisers – like the rest of us – exploit human nature.

    I suspect that Kilbourne’s issue is that advertisers do it with the intent to profit. (Perhaps she thinks profit is evil or bad in some way.)

    Although you’re undoubtedly right that the upshot of all this is that women are ‘bombarded’ with images of perfection, my contention is that it should be no surprise that they would want to use such images, and you nailed it perfectly when you said that it works; in other words, advertisers use images that will resonate with their audience, and these images resonate with the female audience.

    We can certainly encourage women – as I do – to resist thinking that they must be commercially good-looking to be accepted, but I don’t think advertisers can be ‘blamed’ per se for spending their clients’ advertising dollars in the way that will meet the ad’s objectives best — essentially (as we’ve agreed) because women respond to them.

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