Thought for the Week: The Vice of Creationism-versus-Evolution

There’s something about the creationism-versus-evolution debate that makes me want to poke my own eyes out just so I have something to throw at the opposing sides. A plague on both their houses!
Now, let me clarify my view that the basic theory of evolution is generally correct. I’m not a scientist, but so far as [...]

Stephen Graham has an academic background in theology and philosophy and has continued thinking and reading in these areas since. He is currently a legal researcher. This is one of his articles.

Human evolutionThere’s something about the creationism-versus-evolution debate that makes me want to poke my own eyes out just so I have something to throw at the opposing sides. A plague on both their houses!

Now, let me clarify my view that the basic theory of evolution is generally correct. I’m not a scientist, but so far as I understand it the theory is in pretty good shape. Of course, it’s not without problems and challenges, but there isn’t much by way of credible alternative. The most recent challenger is the theory that has come to be known as “Intelligent Design.” To many scientists ID is little more than an attempt to sneak theism into science, and are worried because ID is a growing movement winning support around the world.


Some – such as Dawkins – largely ignore it, others engage with it just so they can mock it, and a few – such as Kenneth Miller – do what to me seems best: take it seriously (if for no other reason than lay-people take it seriously) and answer its challenges and propositions. ID’s central plank is that there are many living things which are so “irreducibly complex” that only the gullible could believe they evolved gradually by natural selection. They must therefore have been designed by some intelligent being (not necessarily God, by the way). Irreducible complexity is the term used to describe some piece of “biological machinery” which is composed of parts which must all be present at once if it is to work. The parts are useless by themselves and can only work when combined with the other parts. Since natural selection can only work on something that’s already functioning it can’t be responsible for the pieces coming together in the first place.

Is this “science?” Evolutionists say no. Obviously advocates of ID give a hearty “yes indeed!” I say: who gives a shit whether or not it is? Both sides in the debate get on my nerves.

Firstly the ID squad. OK, they might well be making some points that require answers. Michael Behe, who wrote about the concept of irreducible complexity in his book “Darwin’s Black Box,” isn’t a wacko fundamentalist with his brains up his arse; he’s a professional, reputable scientist. However, much of the problem with ID is that many wackos have jumped on the bandwagon because they see it as the saviour of their religious beliefs. To them it’s another religion-versus-science Cold War. Many hold to the relatively recent claim that the Bible is infallible and to be read literally when it describes the creation of the world in Genesis 1-2. This view is a minority even within Protestantism. Philosopher Mary Midgley puts it well: “Fundamentalism [of this kind] is a perverse attempt to use a particular bronze-age Hebrew vision of God to resolve factual questions of science and history.” I agree, and in fact having studied Genesis 1-2 as part of a theology degree would add that those who wrote it weren’t writing a cosmology as much as they were writing a theology, saying more about the kind of God they believed in (compared to surrounding cultures) than how they thought the world was made. But to many fundamentalists the issue of evolution is caught up with their religious worldview and so they advocate a tying of science to their own (rather narrow) religious beliefs.

However, the reactions of some atheists to religious fundamentalism of this type has been equally ridiculous. As soon as the religious fundamentalists reacted to Darwin we saw the rise of what came to be called “scientific atheism,” with polemicists like John Draper and Andrew White leading the charge, and this equally dogmatic “anti-religious” response to fundamentalist creationism permeates the scholarly world of the sciences to this day. But here’s the trouble: there is nothing whatsoever “scientific” about atheism. It’s no more scientific than theism is: because the existence of God is first and foremost a metaphysical question. And yet we still get atheist scientists who think that their atheism is “scientific” in some way. What are we to make of Dawkins book the “The God Delusion”? Whatever Dawkins’ intentions are it certainly appears to a great many people that the theory of evolution is being tied to atheism when in fact if the former is true it does not mean the latter is. It seems to me that many people are more willing to embrace creationism because they see the only alternative is what they call “scientific atheism.” By tying evolution to atheism some biologists might well be shooting themselves in the foot, for their own doctrines may well put off many people who would otherwise be sympathetic and persuaded by the arguments for evolution. It needs to be stressed that science cannot be linked to atheism in such an affirming way. Science does not – and cannot – disprove the existence of God, it simply ignores God and attempts to explain the natural world in a natural way.

Both sides have their protagonists who are guilty of turning debates about evolution into a struggle between theism and atheism. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to criticise the theory of evolution these days without being labelled fundamentalist and anti-science. Likewise evolution is being blurred into atheism by religious opponents, because it suits them and their project quite nicely to be able to offer us the choice: “creationism or atheism?” There should of course be a theism-versus-atheism debate, but that debate becomes tired, tedious and irrelevant when it’s reduced to creationism-versus-evolution.

Theodosius Dobzhansky, an evolutionist, once argued that science and religion cannot clash because their functions are different: science deals with facts while religion deals in meaning. I disagree with him, but he’s at least on the right track. I think religions deal in fact too and don’t just concern themselves with meaning, transcendental or otherwise. For instance “Jesus rose from the dead” is a statement with a truth-value; it’s not just a statement of “meaning.” I’m being a little pedantic perhaps because Dobzhansky is certainly in the right neighbourhood. Religion deals first and foremost with the metaphysical, and those things are by definition beyond scientific enquiry (the word metaphysics literally means “beyond science”). That does not mean that religion does not deal in facts, the question of God’s existence is indeed a factual investigation: God either exists or does not. But we mustn’t make the mistake of thinking that the only kinds of facts are those discoverable scientifically, for there may well be what I call “philosophical facts” which apply to the realm of metaphysics and which are relevant when dealing with questions of God’s existence, free will, or life after death.

Science does not prove the existence of God, nor does it prove the truth of atheism. It gives us basic information and facts about the world from which we must argue to other conclusions beyond the strictly “scientific.” Some of the insights of ID theorists might not be “science,” but they can contribute to a philosophical debate about the existence of God. The real debate about God’s existence will never be advanced by scientists, but by philosophers. I suggest that theist and atheist alike stop their nonsense of tying science and scientific theories to their wider worldviews. The fight for theism or atheism will not be won on a scientific battlefield.

Stephen Graham

15 Comments

  1. Matteo on April 22, 2008 | Permalink

    Good post. Of course, if the theists don’t push hard against the improper atheist expropriation of “Science!”, who else is going to do it? It’s a mountain of work just to get things philosophically and metaphysically “neutralized” again so the scientific establishment sticks to science instead of broad atheistic metaphysical pronouncements (implicit in the almost weekly announcement of new ways in which “science” has unraveled another thread in how natural selection caused “religion” or “morality”). Who else but the IDists have even begun to take this on? It’s highly unlikely that “a plague on both their houses” folks are going to bring about such a reform, what with them being above the fray and all.

    Also, I find that the ID side has presented rather compelling scientific/philosophical arguments in their main scholarly works. For some reason these are very rarely directly addressed by the “brights” who prefer to throw around the “creationist” word in the same way an Alabama cracker would throw around the “nigger” or “faggot” word 50 years ago. It’s nothing but cheap bigotry to prevent one side from being heard and to announce to everyone involved (including the neutral) just what their proper place is. Additionally we have the lazy intellectual tendency on their part to regard any “rebuttal” of an ID argument, no matter how transparently weak (viz Ken Miller) for those who’ve taken the trouble to read up on the ID side, as some sort of decisive “refutation”.

    As long as these dynamics hold, I have no compunction with picking sides. Until both sides have equal academic freedom to pursue their investigations, the battle is on.

  2. John on April 22, 2008 | Permalink

    Matteo- Welcome, I enjoyed that comment, particularly the second paragraph comparing the like of Dawkins to “an Alabama cracker”. LOL!

    Great post, Stephen. I disagree some with both of you, but enjoyed reading.

  3. Stephen on April 22, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi Matteo,

    Thanks for the comments. I agree with you that some dogmatic atheists have skewed what science is – which is why so many think science supports atheism when, as I said above, atheism isn’t scientific at all. That’s one of my main beefs: the use of science to support a metaphysical system.

    I agree that Intelligent Design theorists have done some good work to remedy this, but too many of them are trying to go another, equally invalid, direction. I’m not against the use of scientific facts as part of the case for God but we need to acknowledge that such efforts amount to philosophy rather than science, which is fine because philosophy and that kind of reflection is as valid and important a way to come to conclusions about many different things, the existence of God included, as science.

    In so far as either side talks in terms of “science proves/disproves God” I think “a plague on both their houses is the only sensible path.

    You say “I find that the ID side has presented rather compelling scientific/philosophical arguments in their main scholarly works.” I agree with you, and I think some theistic philosophers have done a remarkable job of reflecting on the findings of science. I agree with you also that often intelligent theists get treated as mindless nutters: Dawkins proved that in The God Delusion.

    You last paragraph in general makes a very good point, and as a theist I’m very much interested in the battle, but I’ll not be fighting the battle for theism, nor pinning the hopes of theism, on whether or not evolution is true.

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond. If youi have any suggestions or recommendations for reading you can let me know.

    Cheers,

    S.

  4. Matteo on April 22, 2008 | Permalink

    Stephen,

    Out of the books I’ve read in the last few months I wholeheartedly recommend “God’s Undertaker” by John Lennox, and “The Design Matrix” by Mike Gene. Both are first-rate intellects bringing new insights to bear on the whole question. I’m also currently enjoying Berlinski’s latest book “The Devil’s Delusion”.

    You know, the saddest thing about the whole battle, is that the subject of design/non-design is a fascinating one that intellectuals of all stripes should enjoy discussing in a freewheeling “let’s get to the bottom of this” kind of way. It’s appalling to me that any attempt to do so is so often met with a denunciation based on the word “creationist,” a denunciation which is more or less equivalent to saying “shut up, faggot” and getting away with it.

    As a theist, I find it sort of funny that our atheist/materialist friends cling so vehemently to a philosophy that can never be a permanent stance for any individual. It is a stance that will either end with personal extinction or the finding out after death that one was mistaken.

    Another irony, of course is that the mere existence of theistic evolutionists or theists who don’t care one way or another whether Darwinism is true refutes the idea that theists “need” it to be false. Atheists “need” it to be true far more than theists “need” it to be false. As such it’s particularly silly for atheists to claim that it is the theists that bring a self-blinding bias to the question. As for myself, I was a technically credentialed, happily and enthusiastically Darwinism-believing theist before I encountered ID arguments. My current rejection of Darwinism is based on scientific and philosophical considerations, not religious ones. And I’ve had it up to here with being told my real motivations are otherwise by those with a necessarily greater worldview- conditioned bias than my own.

    Thanks again for your post!

  5. Stephen on April 23, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi, Matteo

    thanks for another thoughtful response. I think I’ll try to track down one or both of your recommendations above.

    S.

  6. John on April 23, 2008 | Permalink

    Guys, I hope you won’t mind me posting a response to PTL on W&T; the site wouldn’t accept my reply to his comment #113 on that thread, so here it is for his benefit.

    ———————–

    PTL- I’ll break down for you exactly where you’ve gone wrong.

    “I can see that you may not be breaking the rules by constantly trying to draw people away from this site onto your own…”

    Error #1, “constantly”. I joked about it the other day in a series of comments on another thread for fun, and the only reason you could fail to understand that it was a joke is if your sense of humour is buried too deep by religion or if you’re lacking such a sense completely. Contrary to what you suggest I do not have a track record of incessantly plugging my blog on W&T and if you had been around for any length of time then you’d know that. I don’t make any money from my blog and I don’t get a large amount of traffic from W&T (so that’s not the reason I post links). Where I do provide a link it’s because it’s relevant to the discussion, and I’m just as likely to link somewhere else entirely in that case. (Ironically, of course, I’m having to post this as a link on my own site because of problems posting it here, which is the only time I’ve ever done so.) And maybe you don’t quite understand how the ‘blogosphere’ works? Ever hear of trackbacks, pingbacks? Blogs are supposed to link up to each other on related discussions. Half the point of a blog is the freedom of authors and contributors to link to related content. By the way, are you related to PB?

    “I can’t help thinking your behaviour is extremely rude to this site, to William Crawley, and to those posting here.”

    It’s extremely rude? What alternate reality do you occupy? I wonder how you would fare on a regular blog like mine where there aren’t the rules you tried to catch me with earlier, or in a free society where people are, umm, free to move around as they please?

    “If you have a comment to make, why don’t you add the comment to the threat [sic], as the rest of us are doing, rather than posting it on your own site and expecting us to leave this site to find your words?”

    First, the link was to someone else’s words, not to my own. Do pay attention. Stephen Graham wrote an article (above) to which I linked because of its immediate interest to many of the commenters I’ve spent time chatting with about these issues on W&T. Second, I don’t expect anyone to leave W&T to talk to me. You can post your reply on W&T if you like and I’ll try to respond there. And third, the article was supplementary to the discussion (which you yourself don’t seem remotely capable of taking part in), not an attempted replacement for it.

    “By constantly adding a link to your own site, you are breaking the thread.”

    Have you never used a link before? Let me guess; you are the guy that holds the remote control in your house? Only a control freak wants to stop people visiting related sites and objects that it’s “breaking the thread” when they do. I encourage links to be posted on my own blog. It’s useful and beneficial, and I post many of the links myself, thus *shock horror* inviting people to leave my site to visit others! What age are you, by the way? My guess is that you’re either old enough to suffer a lack of comprehension regarding this technology, or young enough that you think people should put their hand up before speaking.

    “If you have something to say (and I am certain you have useful things to say), why not say them here?”

    I’ve been posting comments regularly on W&T for 3 years, so when someone asks, “Why not say them here?”, I would look at them with a blank expression upon my face utterly confused, before taking a large, wet fish and slapping them up the face with it in order to find out if they are capable of making sense.

    “Feel free to stop doing that and/or offer Will and the bloggers here an apology and/or explanation.”

    Feel free to post anything even plausibly useful in the thread you claim I’m “breaking”. Feel free to claim that in using a Mac I am being rude to those using PCs, or that in using logic I am being rude to those like yourself who can’t understand it. Feel free to stop attacking others who read W&T.

    Finally, you wrote to someone else:

    “The issue is John Wright’s tendency to post links to his own site and to commentary there that could be included in the conversation HERE.”

    I’m not going to re-type a piece of commentary because you think blue text is rude. Neither am I going to abstain from linking to my colleague Stephen Graham’s articles which are relevant to a discussion on W&T just because you seem to have some strange kind of problem with it.

    Well… continue the compelling conversation that you think I disrupted.

  7. Dylan Dog on April 23, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi John,

    Well your blatant self-advertisement worked;-)

    I guess my looking at your blog that you live in the States but also pick up that you come from N. Ireland.

    So I guess the W & T dinner on Saturday is out! but…a few of us have met up before(we are far nicer in real life!)and had a great time. I was wondering that next time you (and Stephen) are back home if you would be up for joining us?

    If not…not to worry but is good to meet people!

    Anyway good reply to my new darling PTL!

    Cheers

    DD
    real name: Harvey

  8. John on April 23, 2008 | Permalink

    DD/Harvey- LOL glad you caught the joke, unlike our friend with three initials. Stephen may be around for the dinner this Saturday; he lives in Belfast. I’m in California so can’t really justify the round-trip….! See you back on W&T. I’m enjoying your quarreling with PB and others as always. Little changes.

  9. Dylan Dog on April 24, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi John,

    Has your links been removed from W & T? has PTL complained?

    You are right it would be a bit of a round trip! but…the next time you are over and if you have the time and inclination you would be more that welcome to join us!-let us know on W & T.

    Stephen if you are free on Saturday you are of course more than welcome-if not possible this Saturday then perhaps the next time?

    Yep good ol PB I do love him really-he took the biscuit and the cake this time…he is now advancing an argument which was never an argument that I never advanced in the first place and using the info that he turned his nose up to continually! UN-bloody-Believable!

  10. John on April 24, 2008 | Permalink

    DD- No, my links haven’t been removed, they broke no rules whatsoever and this is just all part of PTL’s complex. But I do see one of yours has been removed, the first I’ve seen under the new system. It’s on THIS thread, comment #87. Can you remember what it was about?

  11. Dylan Dog on April 24, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi John,

    I see what the problem is now…Initially I used the link in M93 and got the broken link message but the other’s that you put up work fine!

    Yep I do remember what it was about! it was something about PB and a certain Titan’s rugby club in Belfast(don’t know if you remember the original story on W & T about this gay club?) and how PB was getting on…:-/ nothing too bad and mild compared to some stuff I have said to him! It must have been PB that complained-strange because he does not seem to mind being called a dishonest, smug hypocrite etc etc but call into question(mildly I might add!) his sexuality(and given we know nowt about him) he takes it very personally and I would say has a rather skewed value system!

    Anyway the first person to get a post removed-must be some kudos in that!

  12. John on April 24, 2008 | Permalink

    Yup, kudos! :)

  13. Dylan Dog on April 24, 2008 | Permalink

    ha :-)

    Have bookmarked your blog for future reference as had to do a google for it because I thought link was broken.

  14. Stephen on April 24, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi Dylan, good to see you over here. I’d love to join you all but Saturday is a really bad day for me, it’s “family day” for want of a better description. I guess I could bring them, my son is proving to be quite the philosopher – at 19 months he already knows the word “ontological” which is cool :)

    S.

  15. Dylan Dog on April 25, 2008 | Permalink

    Hi Stephen and it is good to be here!

    If Saturday does not suit then no doubt we will have another W & T get together-will keep you informed of any future developments. That is pretty cool btw ontological at 19 months! thats impressive-I had problems pronouncing my surname till I was about 6!

    regards

    DD/Harvey

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