Women feel it’s leering. You need to understand that being treated as a piece of meat is not a pleasant thing, and according to many women that is what they feel. Isn’t that valid enough for you?

Greg

The word leering automatically gives it a negative connotation before any justification of viewing it negatively. What characterizes being “treated as a piece of meat”? The lack of brainpower, mind, personality, or anything else. So it’s just another way of claiming that a man, by wolf-whistling, is reducing a woman to the physical attributes when I think John has argued well that such isn’t the case at all. I agree John, it’s illogical. Not only that, I think it stands up to Greg’s potshot.

So you think you’re sexy, huh?

S.

Wolf whistling is like the greatest comment a guy say without saying a thing. Just imagine if he said, “Damn, woman, you’re looking good today!” Doesn’t that seem a little more offensive than wolf-whistling? It’s a mans way of saying you’re looking good. Give a sexy glance back. Maybe if women started doing that, we’d get banned from looking too?

the problem with wolf whistling is that when some-one does it they are forcing you to see your body how they see it. before you were just inhabiting your own body, hopefully comfortably, but suddenly you are made to look at it as men do: they are saying that they appreciate your attractiveness but by doing this they are admitting that they see your body as something that they have the right to deem attractive or not.

A bit late, but I just stumbled across this article through another link and wanted to comment.

What this post doesn’t seem to take into account, John, is that when a man wolf-whistles at a woman (when she’s walking past a building site, say), he is implying a great deal more than the mere fact that he finds her attractive. He is also implying, whether he thinks this consciously or not, that he has the right to comment on and express his reaction to her physical appearance in a public forum, regardless of how she might feel about it or whether it’s appropriate. Even if he assumes, as you do, that she will be *happy* about this and take it as a compliment, that doesn’t change the fact that a significant number of women don’t enjoy it, that this has been made clear, and that men are still engaging in the behaviour anyway simply *because they want to.* It is this abuse of “male privilege” which is outdated and out of place, since we as a society theoretically ought to know better.

The fact that a large number of women feel intimidated by these actions stems directly from the way that, in current culture, women are frequently regarded as little more than sexual objects and considered the property of the dominant gender (heterosexual men). As such, we have to assess every male (in particular, every interested male, and those who aren’t shy about expressing this clearly place themselves in this category) as a potential rapist. A man who wolf-whistles at a woman in a public setting – i.e. not in a place where expressing sexual appreciation might be expected or appropriate, such as a strip club – indicates that he either does not understand or does not care that she might not appreciate this behaviour. Add this lack of comprehension/caring to his overt sexual interest and yeah, he’s probably going to register as a potential threat, particularly if the woman is alone. I’m not saying every woman feels this way, or that it is fair or even always necessary. But I disagree that it is irrational and I disagree that your right to express your sexual appreciation of my body should come at the cost of my (or any other woman’s) discomfort, alienation or intimidation. Surely the fact that large numbers of women find being whistled at in public discomforting is a valid reason not to do so? Wolf whistling is fairly innocuous as street harassment goes, but the fact is, you can’t tell beforehand if she’s going to appreciate it or not. It is not vitally necessary that you express how sexy you think she is in this way and it doesn’t cost you anything to refrain from doing so. As far as I’m concerned, it’s not the women who need to learn something here.

(Does that make me a self-loathing feminist with an ideology of yester-year? Gosh. Sorry, I’ll try to be more self-loving and hip in future *eyeroll*)

And please stop saying its a primal reaction, if this were true surely the aim would be to successfully court and then impregnate the female in question as opposed to piss her off, and incidentally if that were the male biological response to pretty women then surely women would have a complementary reaction rather than a negative one. Men who express their sexual interest in women via wolf-whistling and other more pernicious forms of sexual harassment are not attempting to generate offspring. It is an act of aggression rooted in misogyny, so until you start opening your eyes please shut the fuck up, you are just making it harder for us.

Lastly, if this is the political cause you have chosen to fight for, you obviously have no soul.

John.

I suggest you look more deeply into your own instinct not to engage in wolf-whistling. (You seem to be arguing that logic, or reason, do not provide suitable arguments for avoiding this practice, so I assume that your decision not to do it yourself is at least partly instinctive.)

You say that wolf-whistling “isn’t classy, or cool”, and that the reason you do not do it is that it is not “gracious”. But you also say that it is intended as a compliment.

A wolf-whistle is simply NOT a compliment. A compliment is intended to make the recipient feel good. A wolf-whistle is designed to get a reaction from the recipient. A person who wolf-whistles may only do so at women he finds physically attractive, but he doesn’t necessarily expect the women to react positively to it. Not by thanking the man for his compliment; not by engaging the man in conversation; not by paying him an equivalent complient back. The most positive reaction that would be likely would be a smile.

But equally, the whistler knows he will upset some women. In fact, probably even many of the women who smile only do so out of nervousness, not knowing how to deal with the situation. Others may be more substantially upset. But that doesn’t stop him doing it. And that’s not because he feels that the effect of the positive reactions is great enough to outweigh the occasional uspet. In fact, each reaction gives him as much of a thrill as the other.
He just wants to elicit the attention of the person he has deemed physically attractive. To get some reaction from them, rather than just let them walk by and ignore him. This may be human nature, but just like many of the offensive traits of human nature that we restrict in order to make society function better, it shouldn’t be acceptable.

And as members of this society, we learn through experience what is and isn’t acceptable, and then we extrapolate this, in an instinctive way, to other behaviours which seem like they shouldn’t be acceptable, even though we haven’t necessarily experienced the damage of those behaviours for ourselves. Your decision not to engage in wolf-whistling yourself, and your justification of that decision as being “not gracious”, are based on this instinctive judgement of what behaviours are or aren’t acceptable.

And you ARE right, that there is nothing inherently offensive about wolf-whistling at someone. Just the same way there isn’t anything INHERENTLY offensive about calling someone a Paki. That’s just a shortened version of the word Pakistani. No more inherently offensive than calling someone a Brit, or a Pole.

But the connotations of the word, that have come about by the context of its use, make it deeply offensive. It has been used together with intimidating or ignorant behaviour for so long that the word itself cannot be separated from the racist attitude with which it is associated.

Similarly, I wonder if you feel there’s anything INHERENTLY offensive about saying “Great tits, love!” to a random passer by? That’s simply a compliment isn’t it? The man simply wants to compliment the woman on having great tits. She should know that her tits are great, and in case no-one has told her that her tits are great, YOU should tell her that her tits REALLY ARE great! Because you’ve seen her tits, and you thought they were great. You intended to tell her her tits are great, and this should make her feel good because it’s a compliment. And if she DIDN’T want to be told her tits are great, and she is in fact OFFENDED that you paid her this compliment, well that doesn’t mean you did ANYTHING wrong. You just told her a simple statement about your opinion of her tits, and she bloody well “DIDN’T UNDERSTAND IT PROPERLY”. Obviously any woman who had understood that you ACTUALLY DID LIKE her tits would have been pleased to hear about you liking her tits. This one got all upset, because she didn’t understand that your comment came purely out of appreciation for her tits. Oh well… the next one will probably have a spring in her step after you tell her how great her tits are. So do keep paying those tit compliments – women of the world need to know how good you think their tits are!

I could, as a white person, say that Pakistani people shouldn’t be offended by me referring to them as Pakis.
Or, I could say that by all means they may be offended by me using the word Paki, but I don’t intend the word to be offensive, so I should be able to use it. I don’t mean harm by it, so it should be OK.
I could, as a man, tell a woman that I work with, that she is “fit”. I could tell her this every day, because I experience pleasure from seeing her body every day, and I mean it as a compliment to her that she is “fit”. I could mention to my male colleagues, when her name is mentioned, that I think she is “fit”. I could also compliment her on being good at her job – indeed every time, i could say it thusly: “She is very good at her job, and she’s really fit”. It may not be “gracious” to do this, but I only mean it as an expression of my appreciation for her body, and I’m also expressing appreciation of her skills as well, so it’s not like i’m simply objectifying her.

These arguments may appear on the surface to be logical, but they are obviously absurd, because they do not take into account the fact that words (as well as behaviours) take on meanings beyond what might be their basic definition. And that the intention behind them does not necessarily translate into their received meaning.

As a white person, one learns that the word Paki is offensive to many ethnic minorities, because they have all been lumped in under the term, in the ignorance of the white people using it. And that white people have used the word either to inadvertently demean by lack of proper respect for a persons background, or even to deliberately intimidate, offend, or abuse.

As a man, one learns that wolf-whistling, along with unwanted sexual attention and comments on physical appearance from strangers, is offensive to women, because it signifies the intimidation of a man who feels he can impose his sexual desires on a woman he doesn’t know.. because women have been constantly demeaned throughout their lives by being judged on their physical appearance (and in this case I DO mean judged both positively and negatively), and because the threat of any more serious case of sexual abuse by a man may not be far away.

As a white man I cannot know what it is like for a Pakistani man to be called a Paki, and I cannot know what it is like for a woman to be wolf-whistled at. So I learn from the experiences of these people, rather than arguing with them and attempting to invalidate their opinions.

I think you’re missing the point. The fact is that it is male privilege that enables you to feel like you CAN comment on what a woman looks like. Whether or not this evaluation is positive or negative is not the issue. The issue is that you feel entitled to do so. And in doing so, you are on an subconscious level, letting the woman know that you have more power than she does.

i’m a sophomore in high school, and am still feeling uncomfortable with the body that nature has given me, since it has changed so quickly and so drastically. i know from research that women probably evolved large breasts to attract men (since we now communicate face-to-face, and having big round breasts is reminiscent of a large ass). this knowledge has increased my discomfort. i have not yet learned to deal with and accept having d cups, and hopefully some day i will. but for now my body gives me feelings of insecurity and discomfort in the presence of men, especially strangers when i walk down the street. today i was wolf-whistled twice by two different unattractive men in their thirties. i was appalled. i felt threatened. i felt uncomfortable. these feelings may be irrational, but men must understand that women struggle with their bodies and often see them as a burden, and part of this burden can be a feeling of discomfort. the fact is that as soon as you grow breasts, men look at you differently. and for me, this was an unwelcome change because in this case “differently” (to me) is “more negatively”. i want to remind men that a wolf whistle doesn’t express much to the woman in question, since she already knows that she has a “hot” or “fit” body in the eyes of men. it speaks more of the man in question than the woman: it says that the man is disrespectful and ignorant enough to make sexual advances at a woman or a girl who may be too young, or lesbian, or married, or who has been raped or harassed, or is uncomfortable with her “hot” body, or is simply not interested. i guarantee that 99.9% of women and girls who are wolf whistled fit into at least one of the above categories.

girls my age with large breasts and asses do not ask for these features. they are powerless to nature. they cannot change their bodies. they did not ask to be stared at or wolf-whistled, no matter how conservatively they tried to dress. this is the root of our distress and discomfort: we cannot control our situation.

the truth is that men have more power than women in these situations, and that wolf whistling has threatening undertones in the minds of women.

wolf-whistling may be a compliment, but it is unwelcome and innapropriate. it is an ugly compliment, because girls like me did not “accomplish” this “fitness”, it was brought on us. a wolf whistle is a tribute to something that we did not do. it is a tribute to our helplessness. it is a reminder that we do not have control.

as a man, it is dufficult to understand that sometimes having the physical attributes of a woman is painfull and uncomfortable, both physically and psychologically. it hurts when men comment about my body or another woman’s body with a wolfish grin on their face, because it is not socially acceptable for us to oppose this. this is not a political problem and we don’t need rules to solve it.