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Weird Wednesdays: When Atheists Scout for Trouble

February 6th, 2008 · 9 Comments

Scout“Be Prepared” is the motto of the Scouts but I seriously doubt anything could have prepared them for a rather bizarre attack by the National Secular Society (NSS) and the British Humanist Association (BHA). The Scouts association is being unceremoniously dragged up in front of the Equality and Human Rights Commission because as part of their oath they require young members to promise to “do my duty to God.”

Well folks, looks like it’s “D” word time. This oath, or so yap the NSS & BHA, discriminates against young atheists. I’m not sure that that claim is remotely true, but even if it is: so bloody what?

Secular and Humanist groups are on the march, seemingly spurred on by recent ramblings from Dawkins, Hitchens and others of that ilk, and despite their claims to rationalism this latest move is nothing other than a brain fart on the part of the members of each group: all noise, very little substance and bit of a smell. They might like the smell of their own farts, but it’s noxious to those of us who are standing nearby. Like it’s mentors, these groups are becoming increasingly loudmouthed, even a little frantic and aggressive, and dare I say fundamentalist in tone. We can enjoy the irony of that at least. The Scouts have existed for around 100 years and have experienced few problems in all that time. Now they must contend with these psychos who have crawled out of the woodwork to pick a fight. For God’s sake!

Here’s the obvious answer to the Secular-Humanist problem: start your own group. No one is forcing young atheists to join the Scouts. Why don’t they form another youth group? Perhaps one where they get to run around the forest on camping trips studying various species for signs of evolution, stand in circles yelling about how they believe in absolutely nothing whatsoever, and delight in the works of Dawkins and Hitchens. The trouble is Secular Humanists never seem to want to do anything positive. When you see people giving out hampers to little old ladies at Christmas time you’ll get odds in the region of 10,000-1 that it’s a secular humanist. It’s the same with youth groups, homework clubs, summer schemes, and other organisations for young people (and, incidentally, for most other volunteer and charity work). Why the hell don’t the NSS & BHA put their efforts into setting up their own club and lets see how well it does in the market. If Keith Porteous Wood, NSS executive director, is right when he claims that 2/3 of teenagers define themselves as non-religious then surely they’ll have no problem. Why do they have to rely on the Scouts? Maybe instead of criticising the Scout Association they should see if they can found an organisation that can manage to encourage 250 million children to aspire to such things as: “[becoming] trustworthy, self-controlled and self-confident,” “[having] self-respect and respect of others,” and “[having] proper respect for possessions and property.” The Woodfolk is the only such atheist organisation I have ever heard of. It was set up in the 1930’s by atheists to promote their ideals: it failed. If the atheist worldview is so strong, compelling and dynamic then they should be able to attract kids in droves. So many atheists: so very little being done besides the odd anti-religion hot-aired rant. Before any atheist readers get on their high horse and try to tell me at least atheists haven’t done anything bad to people just because of their religious beliefs I suspect a few million theists who lived under communist Russia, or China, might well beg to differ.

The whole episode is lunacy and should embarrass sensible atheists. What the hell is their problem really? Perhaps once they’ve had a rattle at the Scouts they’ll take on the Church of England for using the Bible in it’s services and singing songs to a God atheists say doesn’t exist. After all, doesn’t this discriminate against atheists who might want to join in too? Or perhaps they should take the Roman Catholic Church to the Equality & Human Rights Commission because it discriminates against people who think that priestly miracles during mass is pushing things a little. Alternatively the NSS should “be prepared” itself for a few claims, since in order to join it you must be sympathetic with the general principles on its website which pretty much keeps Christians, Jews, Muslims, and many other religious folks from joining in all the atheist fun. Truth be told the NSS and BHA are simply choosing to be offended and indulging in an sordid little episode of grandstanding. They have no more reason to report the Scouts than they do to report ministers who mention God at funerals with atheists in the congregation.

Remember also that doing one’s duty to God is not the only part of the oath. Surely other bits are equally discriminatory, no? Maybe they need to rewrite the oath entirely. We can only sob for those poor young people who don’t want to “help their neighbour” or do anyone a good turn. And what about the poor republican youth who must promise to do their “duty to the Queen”? And what’s so great about “self-respect,” or “duty” at all? Isn’t duty just a fascist construct? Moreover, that part of the oath that talks of “keeping the scout law” is a blatant contravention of the rights of anarchist youth! Don’t even get me started on how camping trips discriminate against the disabled and those who suffer mental illnesses like claustrophobia. Scouts = Spawn of Satan!

I seriously do wonder why anyone would want to join groups like the NSS and BHA anyway? What on earth do you do at a NSS meeting? Sit and discuss everything you don’t believe in? No one feels the need to set up groups like the “Santa Doesn’t Exist Society” or meet with other likeminded people who deny the existence of the tooth fairy. Life is surely too busy without having to go to meetings to discuss all the things we don’t believe in. Would anyone want to join an “Elvis Is Really Dead Club” or the “There’s no Such Thing as Aliens Association?” These people are just the sort of miserablists that we could do without in our country. They really aren’t any different from other wacko groups all trying to force government and its related quangos to bend to their will and use its legislative muscle to beat its opponents. Why don’t they get a life? It’s turning into an atheist version of the bloody Spanish Inquisition. I thoroughly recommend counselling.

Alas, picking on the Scouts was a bad idea. A lot of support is rallying behind the Scouts on this one and the vast majority of comments I have read on news-blogs and in newspapers are supportive. It was a rather soft target. I’d love to see them directing their efforts against Muslim groups - perhaps bolding proclaiming the Allah does not exist. The reaction wouldn’t be pretty. Seemingly the NSS and BHA have suffered a rather splendid self-inflicted shot to the feet. Many people have a lot of affection for the Scouts Association, which regards a spiritual dimension as beneficial for the personal development of young people. At the same time it acknowledges that a member can be unsure of the existence of God, and such members are not prevented from joining or fully participating. No one is forced to take part in the (very limited) religious observance. As a publicity stunt (what else was it?) it has backfired. Sure, more people now know of the NSS and BHA as a result, but the vast majority think it’s just another band of malcontents trying to force themselves on other people. Frankly they are little more than jumped up hypocrites pretending to give a toss about the welfare of children while in reality caring solely for their own bigoted ideals. Their rabid attacks on anything religious aren’t only tiresome but they give the impression that they’re miserable, have given up on life, and have little positive to offer. I’d really love to see these people cheering up a bit. This absurd storm in a tea cup is fundamentally counterproductive to the cause of secularism and those behind it should really know better.

Ultimately, here’s the rub: lets say the oath discriminates. What follows? The Scouts are, after all, a private organisation and as such can discriminate against whoever they damn well please. All groups are “sectarian” to some degree. They all have boundaries, rules, and an ethos shared by the members. Book clubs exclude people who don’t read books. Libertarian think tanks exclude socialists. National Secular Societies and British Humanist Groups exclude those who see life in religious/supernatural terms. Or perhaps they wouldn’t mind if I wanted to open one of their meetings in prayer? The Scouts do not exist to serve every minority group who wants things done their own way. It’s exhausting having to listen to 101 special interest groups and minorities using the “D” word every time they’re upset about something. The Scouts were accused of sex discrimination a few years ago and then started to admit girls to its ranks. Now it’s the non-religious who are up in arms. Maybe next we’ll have disgruntled pensioners lamenting the age discrimination of the organisation.

On the back of this episode I think the Scouts should offer a new badge award: for lighting a fire by rubbing two humanists together. Or perhaps to really piss off atheists they could have a “hug an atheist” day, telling them “God bless you.”

Whatever happens I’m sure that the NSS and BHA won’t be placated in their demands as they pursue their goal to wipe out religion nationwide using the machinery of government if necessary to accomplish it.

Does anyone else think it’s very much appropriate that NSS has “SS” in it’s title?

Stephen

Tags: Stephen Graham · Theology

9 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Liam // Feb 6, 2008 at 2:44 am

    Outstanding piece Stephen. It’s another example of an interest group picking a meaningless fight to get attention and interfere in someone else’s damn business. As you say, the sinister thing is their willingness to use intrusive government legislation for their own ends.

    I suspect the problem some of these people have is that because both God and the Queen are mentioned in the oath, the Scouts automatically become WorseThanTheNazis (TM) in their eyes.

    Also, the Scouts work well as an organisation. I was never one but as far as I can see their members do nice things like go camping, help old ladies, raise money for charity and so on. This seems unacceptable to the NSS, so they take an organisation that’s worked well and caused no harm for the last 100 years, and decide to stick their big stupid noses in and do no good whatsoever.

    As you pointed out more politely, if they don’t like it, why don’t they just fuck off?

    As a foul-mouthed boozer, I’m really angry that the Salvation Army won’t let me join. I think I’ll take them to court for discrimination. Makes about as much sense.

  • 2 Greg, Sacramento // Feb 6, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Yeah the scouts seem like a pretty benign operation to me. See Stephen, I agree with you on this one!

  • 3 Stephen // Feb 6, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Liam: thanks for the comment. Your post is fairly typicaly of those I’ve seen on the matter around the net. I think these organisations have shot themselves in the foot on this one. They picked a fight with a fairly benign organisation much loved and respected by the population. It hasn’t made these losers look good.

    Greg: Glad to see we can agree on something. Now, why isn’t government interference good here but OK to deal with obesity?

    S.

  • 4 Stephen // Feb 6, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    BTW I have sent this article to the NSS and BHA (John informs me that he sent it to the Ulster Humanists too) so we might have some response from them. I have offered the NSS and BHA a right of reply - which we will publish should they wish to avail of it.

    S.

  • 5 Quinney // Feb 7, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Well I’m an atheist friends, and I think this was a lame idea. Not only is it horrible publicity, but it has to be the most anti-liberty idea ever, as you say Stephen an organization is entitled to do whatever they like and this humanist group is stupid to think otherwise, all the while sitting in their group meetings doing what THEY want to do, it’s arrogant as hell. There is a movement of fundamentalism in atheism now, definitely. Not a trend I’m happy to see.

  • 6 Stephen // Feb 7, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Quinney: My experience is that the vast number of atheists are largely very sensible and intelligent and I have read comments on this issue from quite a few who are shaking the heads in bewilderment at their fellow worldviewers. So far as I know both of these groups are quitr small - I read that the NSS has only 200 members but I don’t know if that figure is accurate or not. Here’s the sad thing: when I look at the website of the NSS or BHA I very much agree with a lot of what they want: for instance the disestablishment of the Church of England, and end to government funding of religious organisations (of course I go much further than this too as you know) and an emphasis on the world now as we live it. But regrettably I couldn’t support them because of stunts like this.

    S.

  • 7 Liam // Feb 7, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Good points Quinney.

    Just a couple of others.

    1. No atheist is seriously disbarred from the cubs or scouts. The ‘oath’ as I understand it is a quick formality and you can stand at the back and mutter it under your breath if you like. No-one is going to throw you out. I believe the movement doesn’t even insist on it at all unless you want to be an adult scout leader.

    2. I think Stephen may be mistaken in thinking that the Woodcraft Folk are defunct. As far as I know they still have flourishing branches in the UK. So there you are meddlers, a ready-made alternative for anyone too precious to just cross their fingers during the oath.

  • 8 Stephen // Feb 7, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Wow…the Woodfolk are still around, eh? News to me, but thanks for the correction. As you say, there’s a ready alternative if these groups can’t be bothered doing something themselves.

    S.

  • 9 Stephen // Feb 9, 2008 at 8:36 am

    UPDATE:

    So far none of the humanist groups John or I contacted have responded.

    The NSS did have a letter in the Independent newspaper trying to answer the charge “set up your own group.” They said that this would just promote more separation and that they would rather groups were inclusive.

    To my mind this only pushes the issue a step back. We could still say: then set up your own inclusive group then - it doesn’t have to be explicitly atheist. So, the point I made in my original piece still stands.

    S.

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