Comments on: Thought for the Week – The Virtue of Forgiveness http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/ Free speech on terrestrial radio Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:08:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ‘The Virtue Of…’ http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1866 ‘The Virtue Of…’ Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:09:36 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/#comment-1866 [...] 1/27/2008 - The Virtue of Forgiveness (read) [...] [...] 1/27/2008 – The Virtue of Forgiveness (read) [...]

]]> By: Stephen http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1457 Stephen Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:50:11 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/#comment-1457 I think Rosalita, John and I are singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. But difference of opinion is good and I'm very interested in Jaccalyn's comments, so I'll direct the bulk of my response to Jaccalyn for the sake of discussion. Jaccalyn: Thanks for your comments. I'm interested in your moral imperative that we "Must" forgive people otherwise we will not be forgiven. Many Christians would argue that to forgive without repentance is actually wrong and that even God Himself doesn't do that. In any event I think that it's possible to make a case that forgiveness is immoral and irrational in certain cases. Would you advocate the forgiving of a man who rapes children and is unrepentant? Do you think that that is morally defensible or rational? Secondly, are you going to tell the children who have been raped that they must forgive the rapist otherwise they won't be forgiven by God, with the implication that they are going to hell? Do you think that this is morally defensible or rational, or even kind to put such an emotional burden on anyone much less a child. I recommend the works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer to you (and your husband in his teaching role: "The Spoke in the Wheel" by Renate Wind is an easy book about his life to start with before you delve into his theology). Bonhoeffer was one of the best theologians of the last century who, unlike many, had to live it and apply it in a more demanding position than many of us find ourselves in: living under the Nazi regime (Bonhoeffer died in a concetration camp). His thoughts on the concept of "cheap grace" are one of the best pieces of theology I have ever read. S. I think Rosalita, John and I are singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. But difference of opinion is good and I’m very interested in Jaccalyn’s comments, so I’ll direct the bulk of my response to Jaccalyn for the sake of discussion.

Jaccalyn:

Thanks for your comments. I’m interested in your moral imperative that we “Must” forgive people otherwise we will not be forgiven. Many Christians would argue that to forgive without repentance is actually wrong and that even God Himself doesn’t do that.

In any event I think that it’s possible to make a case that forgiveness is immoral and irrational in certain cases. Would you advocate the forgiving of a man who rapes children and is unrepentant? Do you think that that is morally defensible or rational? Secondly, are you going to tell the children who have been raped that they must forgive the rapist otherwise they won’t be forgiven by God, with the implication that they are going to hell? Do you think that this is morally defensible or rational, or even kind to put such an emotional burden on anyone much less a child.

I recommend the works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer to you (and your husband in his teaching role: “The Spoke in the Wheel” by Renate Wind is an easy book about his life to start with before you delve into his theology). Bonhoeffer was one of the best theologians of the last century who, unlike many, had to live it and apply it in a more demanding position than many of us find ourselves in: living under the Nazi regime (Bonhoeffer died in a concetration camp). His thoughts on the concept of “cheap grace” are one of the best pieces of theology I have ever read.

S.

]]> By: John http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1454 John Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:34:03 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/#comment-1454 I love your cynicism on this, because I feel the same way myself when I see it glorified. What interests me is the way churches create these super-saints, because their road to conversion was so much more dramatic than the rest of us schlubs who didn't happen to kill people beforehand. I would hope a real rehabilitation from that kind of life would take much longer --maybe a lifetime-- and would be filled with much more humility and brutal honesty than I've seen. I love your cynicism on this, because I feel the same way myself when I see it glorified. What interests me is the way churches create these super-saints, because their road to conversion was so much more dramatic than the rest of us schlubs who didn’t happen to kill people beforehand. I would hope a real rehabilitation from that kind of life would take much longer –maybe a lifetime– and would be filled with much more humility and brutal honesty than I’ve seen.

]]> By: Jaccalyn http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1452 Jaccalyn Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:00:13 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/#comment-1452 I do agree with you that it is hard to listen to people who have been doing whatever they wanted then all of a sudden 'Found Jesus' and they think all is OK. But we still Must forgive them, or we will not be forgiven......My husband is a youth pastor and was teaching the teens about this, and never before did i understand this verse in that light, but there it is, plain as day! Matthew 6:14-15 (Amplified Bible) 14For if you forgive people their trespasses their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their] reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. I do agree with you that it is hard to listen to people who have been doing whatever they wanted then all of a sudden ‘Found Jesus’ and they think all is OK. But we still Must forgive them, or we will not be forgiven……My husband is a youth pastor and was teaching the teens about this, and never before did i understand this verse in that light, but there it is, plain as day!

Matthew 6:14-15 (Amplified Bible)

14For if you forgive people their trespasses their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their] reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

]]> By: Rosalita Paglia http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1451 Rosalita Paglia Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:32:25 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2008/01/27/thought-for-the-week-the-virtue-of-forgiveness/#comment-1451 Stephen I am very impressed by this article....it's very pensive and I'm glad to see some reflecting on which way or that on issues like this, makes me feel better about having the same doubts myself! For my money I would probably feel very suspicious but leave them to it. And no, I wouldn't let them mind my kids. Stephen I am very impressed by this article….it’s very pensive and I’m glad to see some reflecting on which way or that on issues like this, makes me feel better about having the same doubts myself! For my money I would probably feel very suspicious but leave them to it. And no, I wouldn’t let them mind my kids.

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