Comments on: Is God a Libertarian? http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=is-god-a-libertarian Not Facebook Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:58:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Stephen http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-1002 Stephen Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:47:54 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-1002 Thanks for the comments folks. David: "I think it would be difficult to apply either label to Jesus - Socialist or Capitalist." I agree. That wasn't my point. My point was that there are elements of his teaching that lean more towards libertarian ideals than socialist ones, and that these elements are often overlooked - as is testified by the fact that Jesus is often thought of more as a socialist than anything else. "I think if you follow either system to its extreme there are moral implications." To it's extreme? Or to it's logical conclusion? Why shouldn't we follow something to its logical conclusion? And of course there are moral implications of doing so - but there are moral implications of NOT doing so too. That's a rather curious comment. "He'd [Jesus or God] probably be apolitical if he existed." Why? "I'm not convinced on the moral conduct is hindered under socialism bit either - if you wouldn't mind expanding on that." OK. What makes an action moral? Can robots act morally? Computers? If a robot kills someone is it morally culpable? No. Why? Because it doesn't act freely. It doesn't choose. It cannot decide not to kill if has been programmed to do so. Human beings are moral agents precisely because we CAN choose. But, socialism hinders our choosing in a number of respects - most notably how we spend our money. There is a large portion of my money that I have no choice over how to spend, whether to give it to the poor or spend it on high class hookers. Socialism restricts my freedom in such matters by taking my money and giving it to causes whether I support them or not. S. Thanks for the comments folks.

David:

“I think it would be difficult to apply either label to Jesus – Socialist or Capitalist.”

I agree. That wasn’t my point. My point was that there are elements of his teaching that lean more towards libertarian ideals than socialist ones, and that these elements are often overlooked – as is testified by the fact that Jesus is often thought of more as a socialist than anything else.

“I think if you follow either system to its extreme there are moral implications.”

To it’s extreme? Or to it’s logical conclusion? Why shouldn’t we follow something to its logical conclusion? And of course there are moral implications of doing so – but there are moral implications of NOT doing so too. That’s a rather curious comment.

“He’d [Jesus or God] probably be apolitical if he existed.”

Why?

“I’m not convinced on the moral conduct is hindered under socialism bit either – if you wouldn’t mind expanding on that.”

OK. What makes an action moral? Can robots act morally? Computers? If a robot kills someone is it morally culpable? No. Why? Because it doesn’t act freely. It doesn’t choose. It cannot decide not to kill if has been programmed to do so. Human beings are moral agents precisely because we CAN choose. But, socialism hinders our choosing in a number of respects – most notably how we spend our money. There is a large portion of my money that I have no choice over how to spend, whether to give it to the poor or spend it on high class hookers. Socialism restricts my freedom in such matters by taking my money and giving it to causes whether I support them or not.

S.

]]> By: JD Davis http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-995 JD Davis Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:33:54 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-995 Great thread good topic- Now to ruffle a few feathers? It is just my opinion There is no such being as GOD and politics have no place in a religious realm. Separations of church & state? - PLALEEEESE! - lol What's a large part of the vote? well yes it's those evangelistic Christians. And the (my view) Idealism of God worn on the sleeves of our politicians is a ploy for votes and campaign dollars. Remember G.W. Bush found "god" as a 40 year old (dry drunk) at A.A. classes court ordered after his 2nd DUI *drunk driving conviction. Am I veering away from the topic a little to far? "What country would god invade next and kill innocent life's" ? according to the Abeles tales I read in that philosophy book (they call the bible) Id venture to say Jesus was a Liberal. Peace, JD Great thread good topic- Now to ruffle a few feathers?
It is just my opinion There is no such being as GOD
and politics have no place in a religious realm.
Separations of church & state? – PLALEEEESE! – lol
What’s a large part of the vote? well yes it’s those
evangelistic Christians. And the (my view) Idealism of God
worn on the sleeves of our politicians is a ploy for votes
and campaign dollars. Remember G.W. Bush found “god”
as a 40 year old (dry drunk) at A.A. classes court ordered
after his 2nd DUI *drunk driving conviction.
Am I veering away from the topic a little to far?
“What country would god invade next and kill innocent life’s” ?

according to the Abeles tales I read in that philosophy book
(they call the bible) Id venture to say Jesus was a Liberal.

Peace,
JD

]]> By: Dave Powell http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-993 Dave Powell Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:14:25 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-993 I think it would be difficult to apply either label to Jesus - Socialist or Capitalist. I think if you follow either system to its extreme there are moral implications. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call god / jesus a libertarian. He'd probably be apolitical if he existed. I'm not convinced on the moral conduct is hindered under socialism bit either - if you wouldn't mind expanding on that. I think it would be difficult to apply either label to Jesus – Socialist or Capitalist. I think if you follow either system to its extreme there are moral implications.
I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call god / jesus a libertarian. He’d probably be apolitical if he existed.
I’m not convinced on the moral conduct is hindered under socialism bit either – if you wouldn’t mind expanding on that.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-990 Stephen Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:41:12 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-990 I agree fully Quinney, as I'm sure you know. My comment pertained to to the here and now. The only thing I would add is that even in a libertarian state there would still be issues which people will vote for or not because of their faith. For instance, a mennonite is likely to vote differently on issues of defence than is a just war theorist. S. I agree fully Quinney, as I’m sure you know. My comment pertained to to the here and now. The only thing I would add is that even in a libertarian state there would still be issues which people will vote for or not because of their faith. For instance, a mennonite is likely to vote differently on issues of defence than is a just war theorist.

S.

]]> By: Quinney http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-988 Quinney Mon, 22 Oct 2007 04:35:28 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-988 Or, Stephen, create a libertarian state where it's illegal to allow faith to influence law in that way. Or, Stephen, create a libertarian state where it’s illegal to allow faith to influence law in that way.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-987 Stephen Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:52:34 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-987 Brian: I'm not sure that you can separate politics from religion. You can stop religious groups from having an explicit official government role but you can't stop religious people allowing their faith to inform their politics. For instance, Christians will more likely vote for an anti-abortion candidate - because their faith instructs them of this position. The only way to keep religion and politics separate is to stop religious people voting or being politically active. That's not a terribly appealing conclusion. Brian: I’m not sure that you can separate politics from religion. You can stop religious groups from having an explicit official government role but you can’t stop religious people allowing their faith to inform their politics. For instance, Christians will more likely vote for an anti-abortion candidate – because their faith instructs them of this position. The only way to keep religion and politics separate is to stop religious people voting or being politically active. That’s not a terribly appealing conclusion.

]]> By: Brian http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-985 Brian Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:26:26 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-985 I don't care what christians think (or buddhists or jews or anybody else), but I'd like to think there are more sensible people out there no matter what there religion, and religion don't have anything to do with politics in any case, I think people should keep them seperate. I don’t care what christians think (or buddhists or jews or anybody else), but I’d like to think there are more sensible people out there no matter what there religion, and religion don’t have anything to do with politics in any case, I think people should keep them seperate.

]]> By: Quinney http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-984 Quinney Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:39:40 +0000 http://www.john-wright.net/2007/10/20/is-god-a-libertarian/#comment-984 "Jesus the socialist" is presented outside of America more than it is inside, but even in the US there are huge populations of Episcopalians, liberal Presbyterians etc. especially on the east coast who believe that Jesus was advocating some kind of socialism. Even in evangelicalism there are some vocal advocates of this idea in implication, Tony Campolo comes to mind. What is left of christianity if someone stops believing in miracles or supernatural intervention, except some variant of "social action"? Maybe then your arguments are more compatible with a strongly evangelical faith? “Jesus the socialist” is presented outside of America more than it is inside, but even in the US there are huge populations of Episcopalians, liberal Presbyterians etc. especially on the east coast who believe that Jesus was advocating some kind of socialism. Even in evangelicalism there are some vocal advocates of this idea in implication, Tony Campolo comes to mind. What is left of christianity if someone stops believing in miracles or supernatural intervention, except some variant of “social action”? Maybe then your arguments are more compatible with a strongly evangelical faith?

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